ammunition in the same gun enables that shooter to hunt larger game and to fend off beasts that snarl. The 38 Special, practically snubnose 38 Specials, seem to do their best work with bullets right around the 155-160 grain range. DISTINGUISHED LOADS SUCK - Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck? HAVE FUN JP. (Same issue found with a 12 oz. An early Les Baer .45 knotted a group of the lead SWCs into a tight 1.3-inch group, while an M&P .45 did 1.25 inches. Beginners to shooting can use a full size revolver or their carry gun with light to mild loads to become confident and familiar with marksmanship and trigger control. I have 4 handguns that will shoot .38. : 1.475" Powder: 6.0 gr 6.9 gr Vel. But I found 2.4 and 2.7 interesting at 25 yards off the sandbags. Thanks for your help. I also find the LCR .357 enjoyable to shoot with all .38s and most .357s. I have found that if you go down too low in charge you will have some ignition issues occasionally. I'm not looking to blow up my old model 10. During my first half century on this planet, my caliber of choice for defense was 45 ACP- but for everything else it was always 38 SPL. WC, 158 gr. Id pay at least a dollar to see it. JHP, 158 gr. In a nutshell & I mean very short version. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Dont get me wrong: I think the Smith and Wesson Model 642 Airweight revolver is an outstanding self-defense (concealed carry) revolver and you wont feel/care about how snappy/unpleasant the recoil may be in a real self-defense event. If there is a search function for these forums (didn't see one) I'd be happy to use that too Go to the Alliant website and find the data for Unique and Bullseye. I'm guessing they still go bang, and leave the gun to go downrange. defensive ammo. Recoil is mild enough that for many years it was the golden choice for the next introductory step for young or new shooters after rimfire. 5 are good choices. Nice thing about reloading is that loads can be tailored for the gun that you are shooting. WST is less dense than BE. I dunno. 9 mm, .40 sw, 45 acp, .44 mag. Any pistol competitions yet? Winchester's 231 or WSL are also good powders for the .38 special. I have tried several different grips before finding the one that worked for me. Speer .38 shot cup, 5 grains of UNIQUE, and (3) #1 Buckshot pellets dates back to the 70s as a Junk Yard Dog load. The load you use will be up to your gun. Zero 158 grain swaged SWC, Starline brass, Winchester or Federal primer, 2.8 grains of Bullseye, roll crimp. A bullet with a copper gas check or copper plating is best for INDOOR ranges to keep lead vapors out of the air. In fact, Hornady's handloading manual includes .357-inch bullets in the load data for the .38 Super, specifically 125-grain and 140-grain XTP bullets, along with .355-inch bullets, and their one remaining .356-inch bullet, the 125-grain HAP. Tim: The Lyman 49th edition lists the accuracy loads for their cast bullets. I was just trying to get a general consensus of what other guys were using. Most modern revolvers chambered for .38 SPL are rated to +P, so there is room for error, but care must still be taken. And, oh yeah. Ive been looking for a reason to get into reloading, and am particularly intrigued by the extremely long case life of .38 Special. Now theres an old memory. NULLI SECUNDUS. But I would only be caught dead with one in my hands if I had to use one for self defense (pun intended). The reason I love the .38 SPL so much is because its so elastic in function. I would add that the firearm mentioned, a Model 27 S&W revolver is a very durable gun, intended for the hotter loading of .357 Magnum. Has anyone loaded 38 special with these compoments? These types of guns are not as strong as more modern solid frame revolvers. Hornady 115-grain HAPs over 4.4 grains of Bullseye alongside 25-yard timed-fire target. Powders include IMR, Hodgdon, Alliant, Vihtavuori, Winchester, Accurate less to start.) (bullseyeforum.net). Im still new to reloading, having done 2500 38 spl with bullseye. I recently bought trail boss and it runs fine out of my 14-3. . From my Hornady Third Edition manual 38 Special 158 Grain Lead Round Nose #3586 Win 231 3.0 Grains 650 FPS 4.4 Grains 850 FPS Now I will tell you from experience you do NOT want to load Lead Bullets Fast. IIRC, the NRA Action Pistol power floor is a "factor" of 125, which requires a full 1,000 fps for 125-gr bullets. Over 20,000 rounds, Ive found that theres rarely a wrong way to do .38 SPL. Have you all found different seat depths to work better than what's in the manual? For any loads over 900-1,000 FPS, I suggest using a jacketed bullet. 9.) Most DNR (Do Not Reduce) loads are well over 900-fps. My more serious RN is the 358311 that drops @150 gr. No benchrest, nothing but two shakey hands holding the pistol. Proof of concept with .38 first, then on to 9mm where we have to actually cycle a slide but I think Ive got that problem solved. The cases are large enough that they can be easily manipulated by inexperienced hands and yet small enough to not require much force in the sizing stage. Robert Frost. RN, 160 gr. Load with 38 S&W data. Very forgiving with a straight wall case, and tons of bullet variety. JHP, 125 gr. The use of .38 +P+ level (25,000 27,500 psi) type reloads, in .357 brass. IF YOU ARE USING SWAGED 158GR BULLETS 3.1 WILL WORK, IF USING HARD CAST 3.3 IS NEEDED. 2 and No. That little 9 oz. The 158 gr cast plain base accuracy load was 4.0 gr 231 which gave 837 Fps and 15,900 psi. I shoot almost exclusively cast lead from my handguns. https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2221-distinguished-revolver-loads-that-don-t-suck. You may find it will need to be faster for good 50 yd. They are reliable accurate and deadly. Both have fed 100% in a variety of pistols and have shot very well. in a belt holster at 4:00. i had the same issues you did when i was trying to load for my DR revolver 14-3. to light of power had a soft recoil but ungodly bad accuracy. Very versatile cartridge. Canister Sizes: View All Bullseye Recipes S&W M637-2 2" barrel Maybe its just my age, but I may never shoot a 38 again after discovering the 32. References: Accurate Arms Co. 1996 Reloading booklet Alliant Powder Co. Reloaders Guide (1995) Hodgdons Basic Reloaders Manual (1996) Speer Reloading Manual, #12 Winchester Reloading Components Manual, 14th edition Lyman Piston & Revolver Reloading Handbook, 2nd edition. : 1,266 1,472 Press. Shoots well in my K-38, 686, and a friend's K-38 at 50 yards in the Ransom rest. butt 686 shipped w/ Hogue monogrips, discarded immediately due to pronounced finger grooves. The beauty of shooting a .38 is that you can easily practice at the ranges you'd fight at using basically any cheap bullet at minimal expense. You can fit 7.1gr of powder under the 125gn JHP bullet? Bullseye or Titegroup cover 90% or more of my .38 Special loadings. Especially if you reload. For 3 that actually doesnt kick too badly. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. The Pistol a Smith and Wesson model 27-2 The goal is two fold. If you have a lightweight .38 or older gun, you may want to start with 10% less than max amounts listed above, and work up to the full loads. So, I'm guessing the pressure curve isn't as severe as some of the faster burners. When I finally nabbed my own canisters of Bullseye, the first load I spun up was 2.7 grains under Hornadys hollow-base wadcutters. That's usually +P power level in .38 Special. RN, 158 gr. I load it almost exclusively though with either a powder coated or plated 125 grn bullet. Ive tried full metal jacket and the Hornady Action Pistol (HAP) match hollow point in this load, and both ranged from good to great in my nines. L6: 1.550 inch = 39.37 mm Barrel Length : 2.0 inch = 50.8 mm Powder : Hodgdon HP38 Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge, incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge. But its also worth considering that its pushing the same size and weight projectile at the same velocity as the standard Army revolver load during the Civil War. If you have the means, I highly recommend you trying one out. Im a big fan of .32 revolvers, I do think they are a superior choice for carrying and shooting than .38 is, but that doesnt mean I think .38 or .357 sucks, I just dont think theyre the best choices for a small frame revolver. Start conservative if you wish. 358430 (195 grain) round nose bullet that was used in the old 200 grain police loads as there is always interest in these. I too must be older than my years (35), as I love reloading .38SPL and have a S&W 442, S&W 36, and my most recent acquisition is a S&W 19-5 that is an absolute joy to shoot. Most of these are at the upper end. Hmm. Like Wobbly. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. I keep thinking about trading it for a Model 27 or, maybe, one of the new Pythons for extra weight. 110gr JHP! No matter where you look, the first mention in classic loads for the .38 Special is a 148-grain wadcutter over 2.7 grains of Bullseye. Battis, if you go to the very bottom of this page you will see Castpics. All newly manufactured .38 Special revolvers must be proof tested to the same higher proof . Bullseye is a little smoky, a lot sooty, and has a distinct odor. Now, you have to go to a range or have a membership and pay to fill the backstop with lead. Thanks for the guidance and suggestions. I really enjoy Trail Boss and use it extensively for plain lead and plated bullets. 4.2 gr. 10 for a full cylinder. My use of the term adequate means that Hodgdon has produced a workable result for the .38 Special, .38 Special +P, and .357 Magnum that may be used for 125 grain weight bullets having velocity limitations. TITEGROUP AND 125GR 38 SPECIAL LOAD DATA Ammunition-Gunsmithing Reloading Forum Register Notices Consider Becoming A Supporting Member Click HERE For The Benefits Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here Thread Tools Display Modes # 1 01-24-2016, 05:38 AM RONALD HENSLEY Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Waynesville NC Posts: 114 Likes: 12 Would .44 Special be somewhat similar to .38, in terms of ease of reloading, case life, etc.? 3.8 gr. The quality of the loads equals a bargain. .38 Special (Using Hornady Bullets) reloading data with 353 loads. is limited to either the various Charter Arms models, or as a training/target load in a .44 magnum size handguns. Thinking of using it in NRA Action pistol or PPC. But not too tough. If you can follow simple instructions, you can safely load this cartridge. For those folks shooting a lot of lead bullets, invest in a Lewis lead remover. There really is a recently developed technology that prevents leading, while eliminating messy lubricants. Clear editor. 38 special , bullseye, and 125 grain lead rnfp Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting : The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and . I soon traded off a Colt Frontier Scout .22 LR for an S&W Model 15 and happily chased all manner of small game and landfill targets with my stash of wadcutters. 158 gr. BrianEnos.com Unique was a sooty powder so Ive switched to W231. 2.7 GR WST IS TOO LIGHT FOR THE 50 YD LINE. Enough that the range Officer at my range recognized them because the muzzle blast made a distinctive cat whisker pattern at 8 and 10, and 2 and 4 o clock. Ok, will the bullet easily pass thru the cylinder throat, if so, you need the next larger size bullet dia. Rookie, back in the day when I was reloading I went through a 3 round butt L. Horton special model 24, a 4 24 and a 4 624. Both are excellent fight stoppers. Have not confirmed the difference with a chronograph. What I learned after 50 years of shooting and reloading 38spl cases some where around 100 thousands rounds. For example, a Glock 17 shot the HAP into 1.35 inches and the FMJ into 2.2 inches at 25 yards. My best group was .9 inch out of a Model 15. I use 3.2 gr Bullseye to push a 125 gr cast along at 750 - 775 fps in the 38 SPL from 5 and 6" barreled revolvers. Like the author said, I consider it a garbage disposal round as you can load it with almost anything with good results. Which left me with the last two. Power Pistol won't work for me. The gun has appeared on TTAG before and has remained unchanged as far as accessories. These are hand loads.. load data was published in Lyman 50th edition.. A Forum dedicated to the sport of Bullseye shooting, Bullseye-L Forum::Ammunition Discussion. Power Pistols works well in short auto cartridges and higher pressure cartridges but no so well with a 158 grain bullets in 38 Special. I just dont like practicing with it. Thanks very much to LarryinTX for that! IMHO .38 special is just fine for self defense, but just not enough to crack engine blocks. If I get to see him shoot those loads, it would be worth the price of a new keyboard! My M60 came w/ factory banana grips- open back, long enough for pinkie rest but too small in girth behind the trigger guard. A 158 SWCHP at 850-875 fps from a snub. Nickle cases look pretty but dont seem to take the number of resizings that plain brass cases do. Only the Model 60 sometimes have factory installed grips that are not worthless. Bullseye is the classic pistol powder and the backbone of many pet loads. There is almost no recoil and the student can increase power level when they feel ready using the same gun. I still think highly of the LCR but would shoot only 148 grain wadcutters in .38 Special or .32 H&R Magnums in the .327 Magnum model. I dont see much conversation on these specifics but I think Its all about the size of the explosion in the chamber. Its like a pellet gun with a little noise and smoke if using black powder. Since we are working with a gun that doesnt have a magazine, we can afford to mess with this dimension at will. Ammunition is available everywhere handguns are legal. 11/2/2022. Therefore, your platform yields a lot of safety cushion with target loads. Nitpicking is its own reward., I believe the correct spelling is loathe . Normal, mild .38 loads work fine with lead bullets. Therefore, .38 Special +P ammo can be as much as 17.5 percent hotter than standard .38 Special. Prefer to use the CT model 305 laser grips in lieu of S&W grips. 6.) I haven't used any of those powders but I like faster powders in 38 Special like Titegroup and Clays. Although the .357 cylinders are the same length so they can be timed to a 642. "Berry's Superior Plated Bullets are the finest bonded copper-jacketed bullets available today.." ?. What I have found most remarkable is how well some pistols that typically fling wide groups have clustered the semiwadcutters. I love a nice, full-size .357 Magnum on the range because it is so easy to train new shooters on. The cold header swages a bullet in one or two strokes. Just want to state for the record, that with one of the more heavy duty Corbin presses it is possible to easily swage some hard cast bullets. It is a very versatile and useful round. And if youre doing that with a snub.let me know I wanna watch you shoot em. I do this for my .357s but this article is about .38 Special loads. I started loading .38s with a Lyman nut cracker and a home made measure for Bullseye over 65 years ago. With a charge of only 3.1 grains of Winchester 231 powder, velocities run around 750 to 800 fps with good accuracy and mild recoil. +P? Great to get the Mrs out there! On my J frame S&W without the CT #305 Laser Grips, I swapped out to a Hoque set. I carry 38 /357 every day have used them in real world shootings. You can post now and register later. I have some W231 that I use for my .38 super. I use Bullseye powder but it's about the same burn rate. In a 1909 vintage Smith & Wesson target .38, the 2.7-grain load cut a nearly one-inch cluster, showing that classics go well together. I load a hard cast 125gn for my 38 special all the time. In half a dozen different sixguns, it ranged from accurate to spectacular. 4.2 gr. As I said I am not familiar with your frame and suspect it is one of the latest models out by Smith. The other .38 Special is a 4 Colt Diamondback. Yes, I had no issues with the 38 SPL, but the 32 is just more FUN- especially when I get seven shots of it in a revolver the size of J frame! Bullseye is the best powder I have found for 38 special. Like almost all pistol cartridges called ".38" the .38 Special actually takes .357" diameter bullets. Caveat: I have decided that I want to be prepared for threat scenarios that include stopping a terrorist or spree-killer (the odds of which I fully recognize is statistically zero). Just an FYI. I went from 2.7to 4.0 gr and nothing to speak of. Two years into my second century a Colt MK IV Series 80 LTWT Commander 45 ACP still delivers the big medicine, but I have become enthralled with a new wheel gun- a Charter Arms Professional 32 H&R Magnum. 100 except where otherwise noted in "remarks" Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data. A longer case, with have a tighter crimp them a shorter one, what will lead to variations in pressure, and accuracy. Unlike many other guns Ive owned and carried, this little snubby really cant be modified much beyond factory configuration. I would say I completely disagree with you on ever even contemplating using a revolver for self defense unless you are a person that has never owned a gun and not likely ever to practice with it. Discussion: Bullseye is a faster burning powder and some people feel better suited for the .38 special. I probably shoot more 38s than everything else put together but a Dillon 750 makes loading a lot faster. Regulator, SBSS #2255, Pawnee Station, Ro I & II. Youd just be risking ALOT firing it in a .38 framed revolver. I have two editions of it from different years that have that data. Many people tend to poo-poo .38 Special (standard pressure) for self-defense as being somehow underpowered. Most people have one general power level for their semi-autos due to the fact that the guns wont function with ammo thats not energetic enough to cycle the slide. Horrible 5-12" groups at 25 yds. Min Charge Max Charge Optimal Charge Bullet Make Bullet Type Primer Notes; Hodgdon - 700-X: 125 gr. swatmag.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. My Reloading Manual for .38 Special has plenty of data for 125 gr JHP, and 125 gr JFP for Scot Powders/Vhitavuori, but nothing for Unique/W231/Bullseye. I've been reading about this. 01-10-2014, 06:49 PM #4. dverna. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Disclaimer, I own or owned all the super calibers out there except the casull, theyre all fun and quite useful in some scenarios, but dont discount the old timer. I realized that I had hit a very special count for a very special cartridge: 20,000 rounds of .38 Special. I wish Id had a commercial version of this load in my ammo allocation when we were tasked with getting classes of students up to special operations standards with the issue custom 1911s. 7.) I have a few 30-30 cases modified to shoot singles with a very light load. hebyta Like both the .38 and the .44 spl. BTW, I wish I had any one of those three revolvers today. 9 and others like 2400 that are generally used for magnums). Last time we took it to the range, I was trying to cycle the old +P ammo to load standard Lehigh ammo, I fired one shot, put the gun down and cursed while shaking my hand. It is less of an issue on a progressive press, but still requires attention. Rules say (e) Ammunition- Any safe .38 caliber ammunition using the 158 grain round nose or Semi-Wadcutter bullet only. I tried 10 shots of each: 2.2, 2.4, 2.5, 2.7. In my area, Bullseye is one of the first powders to disappear from shelves, lasting about a heartbeat longer than an econo bulk box of .22 Long Rifle ammunition. Wife handled it with no problem, those 5 Super Vel had been in the gun probably over 5 years by then, she bought it to CARRY, not to shoot, if she needed to fire it to save her life it would be fine. 7.8 gr Blue Dot 1,170 fps 1.43" Fed 100 Alliant Suggested starting load: 7.0 gr Pressure: 15,700 4.5 gr Bullseye 1,085 fps 1.43" Fed 100 Alliant Suggested starting load: 4.1 gr Pressure: 14,900 ES 56 SD 24 PMC Eldorado Starfire +P 125 gr. Bullseye is one of the oldest smokeless pistol powders and still one of the most popular. It'll look funky, but it will shoot. I have several manuals and some say that this load is a low +p, some say it is not, but it is very accurate. As anyone learns quickly, first thing that needs to be done is to replace the small factory S&W grips (I use Hogue) so you can hold onto the gun. Any clues for powder and starting loads???? I shoot a Glock 21, and had a great time shooting some poly coated 230 grain round noses today. My grandkids think Im pulling their leg, when I tell them about the freedoms that NIMBYs took away. I can shoot this load at speeds I cant normally reach with .45. In one or two strokes, the bullet is formed ready for dip lubing. Totally agree. Here's what the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook says for cast 125g flatpoint for 38 in the powders you mentioned. They are true classics, and I hope you get as much use out of them! Everyone here who has tried plated bullets including myself, have had disappointing results in accuracy. The majority of my shooting with .38 has taken place with soft lead bullets. A Tyler T grip would have helped here, but is incompatible w/ factory grips. They have a large selection about the hard cast loads from 90 to 170 gains. With all the loads available, you can surely find one within recoil tolerance. I did find a 145 grain Lead HP with a rounded ogive (like the last NyClad) on Gunbroker that opens really well if you get above 800 fps. Using higher pressure loads will wear brass out faster and it will become brittle with time. .38 Special Montana Gold 125 FMJ Power Pistol 6.1 COL 1.417 Tested with a S&W-686-3, 6", ambient temperature about 32 degrees, no wind, target posted at 25 feet (hey, I'm testing handloads for use, not my long range bear killing skills, defensive only). WITH THE SWAGED BULLETS REDDING SELLS A PROFILE CRIMP DIE. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Great gun. A Forum dedicated to the sport of Bullseye shooting, Bullseye-L Forum::Ammunition Discussion, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:00 am, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:36 pm, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:46 pm, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:45 pm, byPacFltShooter Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:50 pm. Shot placement is just as important if not more. Instead, Ive favored things like the K and L frame Smiths (5 screw pre-model 10 and 686 in my case) and Ruger revolvers for higher round count activities. When I finally got my hands on a pound of Bullseye, I naturally started with some of these loads. Of course, these will be used in a revolver. it seems awful confusing, but with time you will be able to interpolate the published data into something that will give you good starting points to work up your loads. Winchester 231 is between Bullseye and Unique for the .38 special (see my personal load above).
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